ORM Smackdown!
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ORM Smackdown!

In case you missed it, there was a very amusing DotNetRocks episode this week, billed as an 'ORM Smackdown' (listen here) between Ted Neward and Orein 'Ayende Rahein' Eini

Here's my summary of some of the points of contention [note that this is in my words, not theirs and i expect i've completely missed the point on most of these ;-) ]...

Ted SaysOren Says
ORMs require extra round tripsYou can always put the ORM layer in the same physical tier as the DB
Adding an ORM increases the Impedence Mismatch...but it's worth it cause it provides loose coupling.
Sprocs can act as loose coupling anyway!No, not really!
Yes really!!No, not really!!
Yes really!!!No, not really!!!
Yes really!!!!No, not really!!!!
Yes really!!!!!No, not really!!!!!
RDBMS neutrality is a premature optimisationNo, not really.
Sql Tuning is platform specificAn ORM can have platform specifics tuning
Maybe, but the ORM would be a lot of hard workNo it's easy! Try it!
I have and i hate it!I have and I like it!
When the ORM changes the schema, the DBA is gonna have a heart attackDB Schemaing Versioning is fundamentally hard: it's not ORM's fault
But ORMs make it worseNo no, they make it better.
ORMs put inheritance info into the DB schema. I hate that!I don't really mind...
The db schema is the master!The object model is the master!
An object-database, between the App and the real database might be the way to go!How about an intermediate ORM controlled database, in between the App and the real database
Object-databases -- they're not ready for 'enterprise' yet but when they're ready, they'll be greatMaybe Object Databases are the future.

Me, I don't get the whole object database thing, I just groan and think nah, I'm not going to start using nHibernate, nor am I going to look for object databases.

I'll use Linq, and I'll keep using CodeSmith. I'll keep using Stored Procedures, and I'll keep working hard and looking around. But ORM, not for me just yet.





'Goran' on Tue, 29 May 2007 05:19:15 GMT, sez:

I just hate linq. I don't get why we need to force sql into c#. Db4o had a great idea of using language native capabilities to specify database queries (see native queries). Why do we need linq?



'Hardbap' on Tue, 29 May 2007 11:38:51 GMT, sez:

I have to agree with Goran. I used Db4o on a .NET CF project and the resulting code will be much easier to maintain.



'Mark Allanson' on Tue, 29 May 2007 12:45:54 GMT, sez:

I negate your Linq comment - Linq is not SQL, and when you have the right use case, Linq absolutely shines, especially for selecting bits of out caches!

What you are really saying is that you hate functional programming?



'Hardbap' on Tue, 29 May 2007 16:23:13 GMT, sez:

@Mark Allanson

"...when you have the right use case, Linq absolutely shines..."

Your comment made me realize how off topic my comment actually is. It should always be about the right tool for the job. In some cases Linq will be the best choice, in some cases it won't.

Now your quip about functional programming is not as good. One can "like" functional programming and not use Linq.

Cheers.



'Adel' on Tue, 29 May 2007 18:09:32 GMT, sez:

The CodeSmith is great in fact, i'm writing a UI over open source code generation project, from that you got my point.. but will not use LINQ till it's already out.



'nanook' on Wed, 09 Jan 2008 12:07:07 GMT, sez:

I think LINQ will be great for filtering objects (collections etc), NOT for any direct data access.

I don't use CodeSmith, I use MyGeneration (http://www.mygenerationsoftware.com) with custom templates that generate sprocs, extensible dataobjects and typed datasets.



'I also hate Linq' on Sun, 21 Jun 2009 00:50:04 GMT, sez:

I also hate Linq. Why build one more data access tool that developers have to learn. With my technology stack plate as full as can be, I just want to vomit when I think of having to absorb linq. I love ADO.NET, and have mastered SQL but hate Linq.




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