Translating a little bit of (microsoft) double talk...

'WaterBreath' on Fri, 11 May 2007 12:51:18 GMT, sez:

> Jasper can scale to almost any database, regardless of size or complexity.

> [When we say 'Almost any database' we mean (as you'll see later in the page) "SQL Server Express or any other SQL Server 2005 edition, is required in order to use Jasper" -- so it's any database you like, as long as it's SQL Server 2005.]

I think it's important here to make a distinction between a "database" and a "DBMS", or database engine.

The SQL Server, Oracle, MySQL, et al families are DBMSs, not databases. A database is a schema of tables and relationships, stored code, etc. that you use a DBMS to store and manage.

I think this latter meaning is central to their point. The criticism of RoR is not that it's only good for simple DBMSs like MySQL. It's that it's only good for simple _data models_. This can be, has been, and will continue to be debated, and I don't know enough about Ruby or Rails to weigh in. But I'm confident this is where MS is drawing a distinction between Jasper and RoR: its handling of complex schemas.

'Mike Woodhouse' on Fri, 11 May 2007 12:52:56 GMT, sez:

A quick run around the various MSDN blogs suggests that, well, it's another gloriously over-engineered piece of work, as one might expect from the gloriously over-engineering ADO.NET team.

I don't think we're really talking comparison with RoR here - ActiveRecord, maybe, but that's about all, and only for SQL Server at present, which rather limits the thing to ... well, to their intended audience, most likely.

And of course, the name is rather sad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasper :
"... an opaque, impure variety of quartz, usually red, yellow or brown in color...."

'lb' on Fri, 11 May 2007 12:57:33 GMT, sez:

@waterbreath
oh i fully agree -- i think this is what they mean -- but they're meaning is something other than what they're actually saying.

you and i are used to reading between the lines, because we're ms developers of old.

but for the majority of developers this is just another confusing chunk of text that ms have put out, and the tool is simply ruined by the fact that the tool is sql 2005 only.

i've got a lot of clients using sql 2005... and yet they only account for maybe 20% of my client base, and maybe 5% of the total client pool out there.

it's a sucky limitation that makes jasper fun from a tech p.o.v. but sucky from a lot of other points of view. MOST points of view, really.

'lb' on Fri, 11 May 2007 12:59:28 GMT, sez:

@mike:
jasper... is surely named after the friendly ghost.

i haven't used jasper and wonder if it is based on blinq.

i'd hate to be insulting the wonderful Polita! go phuff!

'A friendly ghost' on Fri, 11 May 2007 18:49:03 GMT, sez:

I believe the friendly ghost's name was Casper.

Given MS's penchant for naming projects after British Columbia landmarks, I would venture to guess Jasper was named after the national park of that name.

'Jonathan Allen' on Sun, 13 May 2007 14:04:14 GMT, sez:

> I think it's important here to make a distinction between a "database" and a "DBMS", or database engine.

I think it is important here to point out that quibbling over the difference between database and DBMS is a complete waste of time.

'Tippy the Wonder Mutt' on Sun, 13 May 2007 16:20:10 GMT, sez:

This post is so freakin true that its almost not funny.

'Farmer Jeb' on Sun, 13 May 2007 23:43:54 GMT, sez:

When I was studying for my MCSD exams back in the late 1990s, I came across a Microsoft definition for "portable". It went along the lines of "an application is portable if it will run on ANY computer running Windows 95".

'lb' on Sun, 13 May 2007 23:48:31 GMT, sez:

@Jeb:
>an application is portable if it will run
>on ANY computer running Windows 95

love it.

'mark' on Mon, 14 May 2007 10:41:24 GMT, sez:

Wow...that's quite a rant of RoR fanboy cruft.

'Steve Trefethen' on Mon, 14 May 2007 19:52:16 GMT, sez:

Thanks for the translation and giving me a smile here on a Monday.

'lb' on Mon, 14 May 2007 20:40:37 GMT, sez:

@mark: "RoR fanboy cruft"

wtf? That's precious.

I've dished plenty on RoR, don't worry.

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